Lowerring question

[BlackRolla]

Just a quick question....

I have a corolla sportivo 2003 and planing to lower it 1.5 - 2 inches.
Is it sufficient just to change the springs or would it be best to change the shocks as well?
A few people have told me that u can use the same shocks.

How much would it be to change to Eibach or king springs?
Does Whiteline carry these or do they have their own brand?

U can see I am new to dis....hehe

Thanks in advance.

[Peter]

G'day,

I would first like to confirm that we are referring to the ZZE122 chassis, and that being the case I suggest you consider the following.

First up, you need to set your car up so that it will "handle". To achieve this you will need the following:

Rear Swaybar BTR77
Front camber adj bolt kit KCA415
Front swaybar to chassis "D" bushes W0400-size. Note: Check that your front swaybar is 22mm.

I would then suggest matched springs and shocks and bump stops as listed below:

Front Whiteline Control springs 73205
Rear Whiteline Control springs 73206
Front shocks (2) Sports rated, twin tube hyd, ext adj - strut insert K86101414Sport
Rear Shocks (2) twin tube hyd internal adj - replacement shocks K802844Sport.
Front bump stop kit W0922
Rear Bump stop kit W0921

Note: Above front shocks are for vehicles with 45mm OD front strut. If your car has 51mm Dia front struts please get back to us for correct parts.

We are developing a front caster and anti-lift kit (ALK) for the ZZE122 chassis and this will be available in "x" weeks - we will announce it's availability on this Forum.

We also have the following:

Front strut tower brace KSB603
Front swaybar 24mm fixed rate BTF72, or
Front swaybar 24-26mm Blade adjustable

Our swaybars come complete with all the hardware necessary for their instalation on your car.

I trust the above will bring you up to speed on the ZZE122 chassis.

Regards

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[shaundrake]

Yes you will need upgraded struts that are made for lowered applications. Ideally they should be short stroke. If you lower the car on your stock struts, you are using them out of their stroke range which will limit your wheel travel and cause you to blow them out quickly. You will likely be riding on your bumpstops. If you reuse your stock bumpstops they need to be trimmed appropriately. Without proper struts, your car will have that characteristic bounce of cars that have been lowered incorrectly.

It's a good idea to buy a matched set of lowering springs and struts, such as Whiteline, Tein, or Tokico.

The Eibach prokit often does not lower the car significantly which is disappointing for people that lower their car for appearance. They are of excellent quality however and will improve your cornering some without significant side effects. They are good for street applications but will disappoint amateur racers.

If you are lowering for appearance, you will not need the parts that Peter listed. However I highly recommend those upgrades as they will make your car a joy to drive.

[BlackRolla]

Thanks guys for the info. I think for now I'll go for the looks as $$$ is a problem.

Peter, how much would that cost for all those listed in ur reply?
And how much would it cost just to lower without sways and struts?

[shaundrake]

They don't talk about pricing on these forums, but you can get the part numbers and go to the whiteline webstore and look it up. I know money is tight, but trust me, save up for the struts (dampers) and do it right the first time. See what you can find second-hand, from a wreckers, or from ebay.

In order to install lowering springs, you have to remove and reinstall the dampers. So if you only do the springs now, 6 months down the line when the dampers blow out, you'll have to pay for the same labor again. Spring/damper installation is dangerous and not something you can do yourself.

Swaybars etc need not be installed at the same time as the springs/dampers and it's something you can do yourself without much trouble.

Dampers are what bring your car to a resting state after you hit a bump or take a turn. When they're blown out, your car will continue to bounce on the springs for a long period of time. It's actually quite dangerous to drive that way. Trust me, if you only do springs now, you'll be hating life later this year.

[Peter]

G'day,

Back again. Thanks for your input here Shaundrake - the more input and ideas the better for every one.

One of the rules of the forum is not to discuss pricing. We can help you out however if you would prefer to contact me off list.

Regards
Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[zee]

Hi guys, i drive a ZZE123 Corolla Sportivo and feels that it has too much body-roll compared to the Civic i used to drive which had Whiteline rear sway bar and KingSprings/KoniShocks. The car handled like a gocart! I would like to find out what component is the best "Bang for your buck" in reducing body-roll.

With the Corolla, i cannot see how the rear "Sway-Bar" works. It only replaces the existing bar between the torsion beam and doesn't look like it would provide any benefit even though the Whiteline product may be 2mm thicker. I am also worried about the adverse effects relating to sway bars, if we can call that a sway bar?

Secondly, i am close to placing an order for Control Springs to reduce the body roll but wasn't deciding to get new shocks as my car has only just clocked 10,000kms. I am looking to reduce body roll and improve cosmetic appearance. But if i decide otherwise, are there different shocks i can get that would match the springs because i had the Yellow Sports Konis in my Civic and they were good but i felt i didn't require the adjustable feature. Also, what is the warranty coverage and how often do we need the shocks serviced?

I forgot to mention i have a Strut-brace already and i am weighing up the pros and cons between TRD suspension components (ie. Spring/Shock combo for same costs as Whiteline) and Whiteline.

Cheers,
Zee

[Dave]

A swaybar will combat you're body roll more than springs. Even a 2mm thicker bar will provide a much stiffer chassis and less body roll. Ofcourse it provides benefit even though you can't see it. The rear bar will stiffen up the rear of the car and make it turn in sharper, more of a tendency to oversteer as you let go of the gas in a corner.

I'd go TRD shocks and springs over Whiteline because being Toyota I imagine the engineers woulda have much more data to work with and thus provide a better overall package to suit the car.

Hope that helps Zee.

[Peter]

G'day Zee, Blackrolla & Dave,

The ZZE122 and ZZE123 Chassis use the same components and therefore the advice I offered in the thread above (and the list of part #'s) on the ZZE122 chassis is applicable to your Sportivo.

We avoid commenting on other manufacturers components and I will therefore just add that a fair bit of development is expended in developing a matched spring - swaybar rate etc etc.

I trust the above is helpful and of assistance in defining your preferred outcome :)

Cheers
Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[zee]

Hi, i have recently placed an order for Whiteline Control Springs, rear sway bar, bump stops and camber bolt for my 2004 Corolla Sportivo as recommended by Peter. I am just curious why there is such a long wait on my Coil Springs? I have waited almost 3 weeks for it now and the other parts have been delivered 2 weeks ago. I ordered them through Revolution Racegear.

1) I would also like to find out how i can authenticate Whiteline products i ordered except from the Silver paint.

2) Can you also advise why many of my mates have lowered their 2004 Corolla Sportivos with King/Eibach Springs and did not require new bump stops or camber bolts? They lower the car approx the same height using the stock shock absorbers. Even one of my mate who has Whiteline Springs and Koni Shocks didn't need the bump stops. Why?

3) And since we mentioned some competitor's Coil Springs, can you provide me with some info on Whiteline's coil springs manufacturing process and tell me if Whiteline Springs at least match or exceed your competitors' springs' reliability and quality? That is because your competitor's websites provide manfacturing process which gives us a better idea of how they were made and what sort of quality. What about warranty coverage?

Sorry for comparing oponents' products but most of my mates have Kings Springs and i prefer Whiteline so i need some JUSTIFICATION. They costs approx the same too with Whiteline even being slightly more expensive, hence its just fair to compare.

Cheers,
Zee

[Peter]

G'day Zee,

I'll attempt to answer your questions for you - being mindful of the rules relating to discussing other manufacturers products etc - here goes :)

Delay in supply. All I can do is apologise on behalf of Whiteline for what must be a very frustrating time for you. Why the delay you ask - supply and demand is the main culprit here Zee although it is a bit more involved than that. Zee we are manufacturers and as such we respond to orders and product demand from our many preferred outlets and retail outlets ?world wide?. We are not a warehouse and therefore stock comes and goes on demand. Product must be manufactured in economical batch lots to control tool set up costs and product end prices etc. We rely on our preferred outlets, all of whom are independent non franchised private businesses, to stock our product and provide a service to our customers over the counter. Although we provide a small retail outlet at Minto and we support customers (who cannot get to a retailer) through our web store - our main aim is to support our many customers world wide through their local suspension specialist and or retailer. So what has gone wrong in your particular case Zee ??

Swaybar production has edged out to around three to four days backlog hence the delay in supplying your bar. Now springs. Springs are manufactured in batches based on stock wire diameter/coil mandrel diameter etc. ie: The production line is set up with stock bar, tempering baths, mandrels and induction heating set up to handle a particular wire diameter. When all the orders for coils in that diameter have been met the production line is stopped and re-set to do the next wire size run etc. The full cycle is currently taking a couple of weeks due the high product demand. In your case we expect one set of springs to be available tomorrow and the other set hopefully by Thursday or Friday. Delivery to your preferred supplier is by overnight courier so check Friday and/or Monday ? hopefully your springs will be delivered by then.

Authentication Of Whiteline Products. The Whiteline product will have been powder coated/painted/produced in our product colours and will be either stamped, tagged or bagged with the Whiteline product Part # and nomenclature. Our products are marketed under the Whiteline or Selby Swaybar Brand name. There have been impostors however this can be avoided by purchasing through reputable outlets.

Bump stops. We would refute the fact that your friends lowered ZZE122/3 do not require modified bump stops on this particular chassis with lowered springs/reduced ride height. Insuficient suspension travel results from lowering this suspension and hence the need for modified bump stops. That is why we specify them. Again, we produce a total suspension solution not just bits 

Camber. Changing the static ride height results in changes to static camber. Changes to spring rate, ride height and swaybar rate contribute to changes in roll centre and roll stiffness etc etc. How do your friends adjust their camber settings to maximise the tyre contact patch to maximise grip ?? I can tell you our answer  We provide a camber adjustment kit so that you can dial in the suggested settings (listed separately) to achieve maximum grip. You will be able to simply prove the benefits and answer this question your self Zee when your car is set up ?correctly? in a few days time 

Spring quality and Warranty. We stand totally behind the quality and specification of all our products and this is supported by our extensive warranty (refer to the web site for full details). Your springs will also be accompanied with a comprehensive warranty registration card. Is there something specific you would like to know about your springs ? general information on springs can be found in our FAQ Section on the web site ? a link is here:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/faqsprings.htm

I trust the above goes some way to assist you Zee.

In closing I would like to add that our suspension solutions are not a bundle of bits just bolted together. Each component is balanced and matched to the performance, rate and specification of the other and is extensively tested prior to being released by R&D to production.

Cheers (good night or morning or something)

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[zee]

Thanks Peter, that was a comprehensive reply and i appreciate it. I have always used Whiteline suspension components and they were on 2 of my previous cars (a Civic and WRX) and they handled fantastic. I was told by my retail outlet i will be receiving the springs "probably" Wednesday or Friday this week.

I will also be setting the camber to the "Sport" setting. Its not too much neg camber for street driving is it because i take the car to the track a couple of times a year?

I forgot to mention about the swaybar D bushes and front swaybar. What effect will upgrading the front swaybar to a 24 or 26mm have on the car's handling characteristics? Wouldn't the car be harder to steer? I know the poly bushes help but from what i see the front swaybar is a real pain to remove and install and the rear bar has no bushes at all. It leaves the bushes as an option if i decide to upgrade the front bar.

The Koni Sports Shocks Whiteline recommend seems like a popular choice and even the Bates team have come up with a similar setup but with Kings Springs. Are these shocks the only option or were there other shocks tested by Whiteline during R&D?

Zee

[zee]

I have received the suspension components, they arrived last Friday. I had them installed by a suspension specialist which took over 2 hours while i waited.

The parts installed were what Peter recommended for the ZZE123 Corolla Sportivo. They are rear 22mm swaybar (silver colour but no "Whiteline" signature or stamp), front and rear control springs (lowered very nicely), front camber bolt with negative camber dialled to "Touring" setting, and front bump stops. In addition i have the front strut tower bar. The problem here is the rear bump stops, they are too narrow and don't fit!:eek:

I ordered the parts according to the part numbers listed by Peter above but i think the part number for the rear bump stops is for the ZZE122 Corollas not the ZZE123 Corolla Sportivos.

I would like to find out if i can mail this part back to Whiteline for a refund.

Other than this little hiccup, i am happy with the other parts and the current setup. There is still a little too much body roll to my liking but maybe a set of new shock absorbers and urethane bushes will solve the problem. If not i think i need Coilovers :p

Zee

[Peter]

G'day Zee,

I'm pleased to here that "most" of it went well.

With respect to the incorrect part/refund etc, could I request that you contact me off list using the email address below please.

Cheers

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au